Showing posts with label Holy Spirit. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Holy Spirit. Show all posts
Tuesday, February 22, 2011
Friday, November 13, 2009
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Marc Driscoll - Spiritual Gifts
These sermons give a good beginning background in understanding the gifts of the Holy Spirit, however these sermons are only a basic understanding of these things. Read what the word of God says about these things, for the word of God is the standard for understanding about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
From: First Corinthians: Christians Gone Wild by Mark Driscoll
Spiritual Gifts part 1: Definition, Wisdom, Knowledge
(As the case with all these gifts, defining them can be difficult, but the key is that these gifts edify and build up the church. It is ok that some might have different definitions of the gifts, because whatever you call it these gifts, gifts are to be displayed in the church.)
Spiritual Gifts part 2: Faith, Healing, Miracles, Discernment
Spiritual Gifts part 3: Apostles, Teaching, Help/Service, Administration
(We disagree on some of the fine points of roles of women and how they use these gifts (for example I do not believe that women should publicly teach or lead men) , although we both agree that women should be using these gifts and these gifts are vital to the church.)
Spiritual Gifts part 4: Encouragement, Giving, Leadership, Mercy, Hospitality
( I have seen great leaders that did not fit the worldly idea of leadership, but ended up being great leaders when encouraged. Don't dismiss someone just because they don't fit our expectations. Sometimes understanding the giftings that people have is through discernment and learning to hear God on how you can encourage others.)
Spiritual Gifts part 5: Tongues and Prophesy
I can't support the next sermon, its position on women doesn't fully address the position of women in the church and makes an assumption that is not supported within scripture or by the evidence. The evidence actually indicates that these scriptures are not a response to unruly women, but a standard set based on the word of God. Although I disagree with Driscoll on this, I do love what Driscoll says about your family as a man and that a wife who is pursuing theology and coming to her husband is sexy not sexist. I also agree with him that children's/women's ministries are often the result of trying to fill the gap of men who do not lead in their own homes. Men should lead their homes and be the ones their wives and children can come to for theological questions. For more on this issue see - Cherished or 1 Corinthians 14 or Letter to the Women
From: First Corinthians: Christians Gone Wild by Mark Driscoll
Spiritual Gifts part 1: Definition, Wisdom, Knowledge
(As the case with all these gifts, defining them can be difficult, but the key is that these gifts edify and build up the church. It is ok that some might have different definitions of the gifts, because whatever you call it these gifts, gifts are to be displayed in the church.)
Spiritual Gifts part 2: Faith, Healing, Miracles, Discernment
Spiritual Gifts part 3: Apostles, Teaching, Help/Service, Administration
(We disagree on some of the fine points of roles of women and how they use these gifts (for example I do not believe that women should publicly teach or lead men) , although we both agree that women should be using these gifts and these gifts are vital to the church.)
Spiritual Gifts part 4: Encouragement, Giving, Leadership, Mercy, Hospitality
( I have seen great leaders that did not fit the worldly idea of leadership, but ended up being great leaders when encouraged. Don't dismiss someone just because they don't fit our expectations. Sometimes understanding the giftings that people have is through discernment and learning to hear God on how you can encourage others.)
Spiritual Gifts part 5: Tongues and Prophesy
I can't support the next sermon, its position on women doesn't fully address the position of women in the church and makes an assumption that is not supported within scripture or by the evidence. The evidence actually indicates that these scriptures are not a response to unruly women, but a standard set based on the word of God. Although I disagree with Driscoll on this, I do love what Driscoll says about your family as a man and that a wife who is pursuing theology and coming to her husband is sexy not sexist. I also agree with him that children's/women's ministries are often the result of trying to fill the gap of men who do not lead in their own homes. Men should lead their homes and be the ones their wives and children can come to for theological questions. For more on this issue see - Cherished or 1 Corinthians 14 or Letter to the Women
Friday, March 13, 2009
The charasmatic and the doctrines of men
I would have to call my self a “charismatic”. I believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still relevant for, today, and I long to see them used in the church. However my heart is broken by those who call themselves “charismatic”, but have no biblical understanding of what that means. Some of what is called the “charismatic movement” is really part of an “experiential movement” where the doctrine of the Word is replaced by the doctrine of men. I was recently in a meeting where a person proclaimed “Seventeen, is the number of victory, and I believe that God has victory for us. Just proclaim it!” My thought was, “What? Where in the world did they get that? It is not in scripture. Yes, God does have victory for us, amazing victory, and we can talk about this, (yes, lets talk about the depths of it! We can even dance.) but your missing it, your missing the power, by relying on the doctrines of men.” Over the years, I have heard people talk about “7-12 steps of freedom and victory”, casting out “spirits of fear and anger, etc.”, “spirit filled church”, “second tier Christianity or another level of Christianity”, what different symbols mean in dreams, methods of prophesy, and so on. But none of these teachings are in the Bible. They may pull out a few scriptures to suit them at best, but when you really test them against a serious look at scripture they don’t stand up. Where do they get this from? They get this from having doctrines that come from teachings of men and from allowing experiential events dictate doctrine. The scripture is very clear on its rebuke against leaning on the doctrines of men, no matter how holy or convincing they may appear. Of course this is not just a “charismatic” thing. When I talk to many Christians and I ask them why they believe what they believe, most of the time the response is “Well, I feel God would . . .” or “I have experienced or seen this . . .” You can’t do that. You can’t base what you believe on what you feel or what you have experienced. I will tell them, “OK, go study the scripture and come back and show me where this is.” Who God is is not left for our interpretation. Sound doctrine is not based on what we feel or what we have seen or what other people have done or what we have experienced or how “blessed” a ministry appears to be. Sound doctrine is based on the word of God, and it does not change. If we base our beliefs and actions on the doctrines of men we will fall, but if we are planted firmly in God’s word with a heart of obedience, our foundation will stand firm along with what is built on it.
When Paul was writing the church at Corinth, he told them that it was not good that they boasted in men. “For when one says, ‘I follow Paul’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’, are you not merely human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul? . . . For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” The Corinthian church was a place where the gifts of the Holy Spirit were being made manifest, however Paul wrote, “But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? For when one says, ‘I follow Paul’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’, are you not merely human?” Paul wrote the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." In Colossians, Paul writes, “So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.” Jesus rebuked the people of His day because the held to the doctrines of men rather than to the word of God. We don’t shape the word of God, the word of God shapes us.
The “charismatic” are not the only ones who have this problem. I think the “experiential movement” is a plague that affects the church in general and in many different ways. I use them as an example, because, I am one, and I believe that even with all their faults many who I have met and know personally have so much to offer the church. And where they are solid in the word, I am amazed and challenged. I love my brothers in the Lord. I would like to see what God would do in the “charismatic movement” if the word of God became the foundation it was rooted in. Paul also loved those in the church, who didn’t have it all together. He addressed the Corinthians with love and he believed in what God was doing in them. His dear love for them is evident in his writings. And I believe iron sharpens iron. I need my brothers to press into sound doctrine and into Christ, because we do not walk this Christian walk alone. I have so much to learn from my brothers. None of us are perfect and have it right. We come together as sinners, standing in the grace of God, alone. None of us have anything to boast, but instead we are to encourage each other in the Lord. Also, I have found that the biggest stumbling block for many believing that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are relevant for today is because the “experiential movement” is so prevalent in those who call themselves “charismatic”. If the word of God became central to those who call themselves “charismatic” and solid and sound teaching and doctrine characterized the way they walked, then they could teach others about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I want to see this. So I will leave you with this: Stop believing in the doctrine of men and start truly and faithfully believing in the power of the Holy Spirit. We will find that the power of the Holy Spirit is stronger than anything man could come up with.
When Paul was writing the church at Corinth, he told them that it was not good that they boasted in men. “For when one says, ‘I follow Paul’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’, are you not merely human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul? . . . For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” The Corinthian church was a place where the gifts of the Holy Spirit were being made manifest, however Paul wrote, “But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? For when one says, ‘I follow Paul’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’, are you not merely human?” Paul wrote the Corinthians, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." In Colossians, Paul writes, “So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.” Jesus rebuked the people of His day because the held to the doctrines of men rather than to the word of God. We don’t shape the word of God, the word of God shapes us.
The “charismatic” are not the only ones who have this problem. I think the “experiential movement” is a plague that affects the church in general and in many different ways. I use them as an example, because, I am one, and I believe that even with all their faults many who I have met and know personally have so much to offer the church. And where they are solid in the word, I am amazed and challenged. I love my brothers in the Lord. I would like to see what God would do in the “charismatic movement” if the word of God became the foundation it was rooted in. Paul also loved those in the church, who didn’t have it all together. He addressed the Corinthians with love and he believed in what God was doing in them. His dear love for them is evident in his writings. And I believe iron sharpens iron. I need my brothers to press into sound doctrine and into Christ, because we do not walk this Christian walk alone. I have so much to learn from my brothers. None of us are perfect and have it right. We come together as sinners, standing in the grace of God, alone. None of us have anything to boast, but instead we are to encourage each other in the Lord. Also, I have found that the biggest stumbling block for many believing that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are relevant for today is because the “experiential movement” is so prevalent in those who call themselves “charismatic”. If the word of God became central to those who call themselves “charismatic” and solid and sound teaching and doctrine characterized the way they walked, then they could teach others about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I want to see this. So I will leave you with this: Stop believing in the doctrine of men and start truly and faithfully believing in the power of the Holy Spirit. We will find that the power of the Holy Spirit is stronger than anything man could come up with.
Monday, June 30, 2008
A reason to believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit
“. . . The temptation to want to have signs and wanders, the temptation to want to have gifts of healings are gifts of miracles because they sound neat because they sound like they might make goose bumps go up and down your back, because they might make you real as a Christian is a deadly desire. . . .” - - John Piper
Paul wrote the Christians in Corinth, who practiced the gifts of the spirit and were passionate about those things, and said that they were “carnal”. He also said that they were nothing, no matter how great they practiced those gifts, without love. And in there seeking to do things by their wisdom and experience, he called them “puffed up” and asked them “was it from you that the word of God came” and told them to put away their childish thinking. I think this is a powerful message, both for those who do not believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and for those who do.
For those who don’t believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, I think the message here is just because the person who is practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit (are even the majority of people one encounters) is carnal, it doesn’t make the work of God less real or less important. I know; it has caused me to struggle with what I believe in this area, but my heart and mind are not bound by my experiences or what I see, instead they are bound by the word of God. I should not disbelieve the scripture because of men. And here we see Paul dealing with these same issues as he writes a church who is strong in practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but weak in maturity and faith. So in this letter, I find that it should not shock me, when I see that in my own life, but like Paul instead of running away from these things, I should run to the truth of God’s word, in love. And in love run to build up my brothers and sisters in Christ. Paul instead of rebuking them for practicing the spiritual gifts calls them to bring there focus not on the spiritual gifts, but on love and building each other up in the maturity of the faith; to come closer together to Christ in whose image we are being transformed into from one glory to another. The “love chapter”, 1 Corinthians 13, is about this, to show the more excellent way. And as a warning to those who might despise the gifts, Paul says that we are to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. This is a command for the children of God. “Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts”. I cannot harden my hearts, but must be tender to the word of God and what it has to say about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is especially the case for those who know the word of God and have sound doctrine. For those who know the scripture and have solid, sound doctrine, have a responsibility to be leading out in these things and teaching about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, so that the church might be built up by them.
This message is also for those who do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit do not make you mature on their own, you must press into the authority of scripture with love and not your experiences. Do not be “puffed up” with pride thinking you are something because you say that you are “spirit filled”. Do not hold it as the highest thing to be attained. Do not be proud, and say this church is great because it is “spirit filled” Or say that being “spirit filled” makes you more mature. You can be very “spirit filled” and yet be rebuked by God for being carnal and unspiritual. The most spirit filled people, the most passionate, the most victorious, the most used by God people, I know are those who submit to God’s authority and to the scripture in love, who know God’s character deeply and have sound doctrine and a strong character from beholding Jesus and who love others deeply and with their lives. And this is regardless of whether or not they have believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These are the great men and women of God. No matter how often the gifts of the Spirit are used, they should never surpass the use of the scriptures, sound doctrine, or love, these are the things that make one mature in the Lord. And without them the person is carnal, no matter how much of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are seen in them. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are good and wonderful, beautiful, and amazing, and they should not be quenched, but they are not the center of who the church is. The Gospel is the center or another way of saying it is Christ, who is the Gospel, is the Center of the church. The gifts are not to glorify themselves or to get us focused on them. They are to glorify Christ, and Christ alone.
What ever side we are on this (sometimes I think I can fall in either), we can base our actions on our experiences, or we can base our actions on the scriptures and sound doctrine, having faith in the word of God. The scripture teaches us to pursue the most excellent way and that is to build one another up in Christ through our love for one another by the word, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are a part that. And so let us press into those things build the body Christ.
Here is a link to a sermon series preached by John Piper. I think he does a wonderful job at giving a good beginning glimpse into this issue.
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/BySeries/36/
Paul wrote the Christians in Corinth, who practiced the gifts of the spirit and were passionate about those things, and said that they were “carnal”. He also said that they were nothing, no matter how great they practiced those gifts, without love. And in there seeking to do things by their wisdom and experience, he called them “puffed up” and asked them “was it from you that the word of God came” and told them to put away their childish thinking. I think this is a powerful message, both for those who do not believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and for those who do.
For those who don’t believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, I think the message here is just because the person who is practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit (are even the majority of people one encounters) is carnal, it doesn’t make the work of God less real or less important. I know; it has caused me to struggle with what I believe in this area, but my heart and mind are not bound by my experiences or what I see, instead they are bound by the word of God. I should not disbelieve the scripture because of men. And here we see Paul dealing with these same issues as he writes a church who is strong in practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but weak in maturity and faith. So in this letter, I find that it should not shock me, when I see that in my own life, but like Paul instead of running away from these things, I should run to the truth of God’s word, in love. And in love run to build up my brothers and sisters in Christ. Paul instead of rebuking them for practicing the spiritual gifts calls them to bring there focus not on the spiritual gifts, but on love and building each other up in the maturity of the faith; to come closer together to Christ in whose image we are being transformed into from one glory to another. The “love chapter”, 1 Corinthians 13, is about this, to show the more excellent way. And as a warning to those who might despise the gifts, Paul says that we are to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. This is a command for the children of God. “Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts”. I cannot harden my hearts, but must be tender to the word of God and what it has to say about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is especially the case for those who know the word of God and have sound doctrine. For those who know the scripture and have solid, sound doctrine, have a responsibility to be leading out in these things and teaching about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, so that the church might be built up by them.
This message is also for those who do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit do not make you mature on their own, you must press into the authority of scripture with love and not your experiences. Do not be “puffed up” with pride thinking you are something because you say that you are “spirit filled”. Do not hold it as the highest thing to be attained. Do not be proud, and say this church is great because it is “spirit filled” Or say that being “spirit filled” makes you more mature. You can be very “spirit filled” and yet be rebuked by God for being carnal and unspiritual. The most spirit filled people, the most passionate, the most victorious, the most used by God people, I know are those who submit to God’s authority and to the scripture in love, who know God’s character deeply and have sound doctrine and a strong character from beholding Jesus and who love others deeply and with their lives. And this is regardless of whether or not they have believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These are the great men and women of God. No matter how often the gifts of the Spirit are used, they should never surpass the use of the scriptures, sound doctrine, or love, these are the things that make one mature in the Lord. And without them the person is carnal, no matter how much of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are seen in them. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are good and wonderful, beautiful, and amazing, and they should not be quenched, but they are not the center of who the church is. The Gospel is the center or another way of saying it is Christ, who is the Gospel, is the Center of the church. The gifts are not to glorify themselves or to get us focused on them. They are to glorify Christ, and Christ alone.
What ever side we are on this (sometimes I think I can fall in either), we can base our actions on our experiences, or we can base our actions on the scriptures and sound doctrine, having faith in the word of God. The scripture teaches us to pursue the most excellent way and that is to build one another up in Christ through our love for one another by the word, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are a part that. And so let us press into those things build the body Christ.
Here is a link to a sermon series preached by John Piper. I think he does a wonderful job at giving a good beginning glimpse into this issue.
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/BySeries/36/
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